tv Cross Talk RT May 31, 2019 4:30am-5:01am EDT
hello and welcome to cross talk we're all things were considered i'm peter lavelle some in media and even some politicians are giving julian assange new look and it's no wonder a case can be made the u.s. crusade against assad is a blueprint for criminalizing journalism what fate is in store for a songe journalism suffer the same. cross talking julian assange i'm joined by my guest under walker in london he is a new york observer columnist and in los angeles we crossed he is a comedian a frequent guest on the jimmy door show and the young turks as well as host of his own streaming show get your news on with ron crosstalk rules in effect that means
he can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate i'll go to ron because you got up early as for this program and i much appreciate it i always do that i think . there's been a number of articles coming out one notable is by joe lauria at the consortium news that there are a number of politicians and even media outlets are taking a 2nd look after demonizing julian assange for so many years is this because they're beginning to wake up like you have and i have on our our platforms that there is this is an attack on freedom of speech or is this a cudgel they're using against donald trump and their perceived belief that donald trump is that war with the 1st amendment go ahead in los angeles. i think it's more of the 1st explanation i think that you know when you look at these new or these these new indictments they have everything to do with exposing corruption exposing war in this. we traced back to actions around 2010 and other outlets publish
those same documents new york times the guardian and they're coming after us on so i think it's one of those things where people finally looked around in a lot of us have been sounding the alarm for a long time saying this is absolutely ridiculous what is happening this is an assault on press freedom because it is but i think some in the corporate media finally had that awakening where it's you know it's that age old it's kind of age old proverb you know 1st they came for the trade unionists and i didn't speak out and now in this case you know there's that famous me my on the internet now where it's like well 1st they came for the journalist and then i don't know what happened after that because nobody could tell anybody else exactly the same question to you why this sudden interest in here because we have to point out to our viewers that there are reports that joining us is seriously ill he has been moved to a military hospital. apparently is having a difficulty speaking meaning being not being able to defend himself even with
a lawyer here these are the reports that we're hearing but i guess me it was because of these espionage charges that were being brought up people are getting it's a bit of a spook i mean it should send a. shiver down your about in your spine as being in the in the realm of media it certainly does for me because julian its launch is not an american citizen apparently these quote unquote espionage crimes were not committed in the united states. this is kind of scary for all journalists everywhere in the world if this prosecution continues down the path that it is going go ahead in london on the day . well i think you've mentioned a number of things and there are a number of things that are worth kind of talking about with odds look we have a extradition treaty with the united states of america agreed by all disastrous prime minister tony blair which allows you to be extradited to america even if you have not never been to america in your life for crimes that the american say you've
committed that violates some basic rules of international law as far as i'm concerned in terms julian assange himself we all saw him being dragged out looking like an angry badger from the ecuadorian embassy but remember the reason lies health declined within the ecuadorian embassy was his own personal cowardice and i think that's probably much by his own personal narcissism because he was in the for 7 years to avoid facing trial in sweden for an offense that would have given him 5 years in prison i think it's ludicrous what he's done and i think many of the problems he's heaped upon himself now in terms of journalistic on press freedom i do not believe that the espionage act is going to be something that you can fit convict julian the psalms with i'm not an expert on american law but it does seem to me that the rights of journalists enshrined in the american constitution mean the psalms will never will either be convicted i think be overturned by the supreme
goals or never be convicted on the basis that the that these charges are in called but either way you wouldn't make some sense for him to actually face trial rather than trying to wriggle away if you look at what's happened in the case of sweden he's but as i say he spent 7 years in the ecuadorian embassy which remember is a 2 bedroom flat 7 years in the never coming out of the coping and facing the charges of potentially waiting ok well i think there's a the his reasoning was that he was afraid of being extradited to the united states and what we did what i did i have no i don't have problems hang on hang on i'll let you. speak come on hang on here and plus on today and our viewers have to know that julian assange has not been charged with anything having to do with sweden not charged at all there was an investigation so there's no charges that he was running away from you know ron there's so many but this is what is the central problem here is the side to a problem because actual problem here is this julian
a solemn g.'s ridiculous and childish claim that it's jory he's odd western courts will convict him of something that he's not guilty of that he's decided to claim well i don't think i don't know why he's yes but i just went on a journey around the world in the u.k. the u.k. the ecuadorian government in the american government are making so many exceptions in this case of julian the signage go read. it being a regular things that have been he's been had to deal with here i mean he is a political target there is no doubt about that now let me go to ron here now i think i think it's obvious you know ron talked about you know. his personal behavior and his narcissism and i don't care about any of that at all. i'm sorry. i don't care about that at all i care about the principle of how journalists are treated under the law and when i hear the espionage. being mention
this is a very scary moment and it is a precedent ok so i don't think we need to go into personal attacks ok go ahead run in los angeles. well yeah and you know i certainly do not have a ton of confidence and the u.s. court system when it comes to this issue just look at what's happening to chelsea manning yet look at what they're doing to her they're trying to coerce this answer that they want to get out of her because what they really want is they want they want her to say that julian assange helped hack or something like that because you know all the things that they're putting on julian assange and wiki leaks these are just basic things that investigative journalist do you have a source you protect them oh if you have a source you say hey where can i get more of this that's just stuff investigative journalists do but if he participated in akko well then it's something different so
they're trying to get chelsea manning to say that that happened she won't say it probably has it didn't happen and they're just treating her the way they're treating or owning or indefinite length people are in solitary confinement and it's i mean it seems to me that they're holding her because they know they have a weak case and that's why they need to squeeze her i have to wonder and i can't be this kind of rhetorical i wonder when daniel ellsberg approach the the new york times with the pentagon papers i bet there was an editor and say you got me more but the no one went to prison for saying that did they know they were doing their journalistic practice ok and let's go back to on that i hear that what i find really problematic is that julian assange is world renowned you can love him and you can hate him i don't care one way or another but he is known as the publisher at the end and all of a sudden now when he's out illegally dragged out of the ecuadorian embassy he's no longer a publisher ok what you know what's happening there i agree what's wrong if they
are going to get the names i get wrong and rain los angeles i don't think giuliani has a whole lot of faith in the american judicial system go ahead in london. well 1st of all he was illegally dragged out of the ecuador them to say he is here is the unity where he's obviously decided it was valid it was. his asylum with was withdrawn i mean i personally think the whole that dorian embassy thing whether you be the president of ecuador that allowed it julian the psalms for requesting it or the ambassador for putting up with it i thought the whole thing was. ludicrous and pathetic but we live in a world today where you are guilty until proven innocent whereas i believe in the tradition that the british started which is innocence until proven guilty it is right that the american or forty's investigate julian assange and if necessary it is fine for the united states of america to make that case to the u.s. courts but that doesn't make him guilty nor does it mean that when he faces trial in america there should be any assumptions are they. going to use on your account
you're confident that he would get a fair trial you're definitely confident in our i'll go i'll go further i'm confident the julian the songs is going to be found not guilty all that's off are the people to the supreme court the reason he's because as you said quite rightly they sold boils down to whether he's a hacker or a journalist and there's an accredited journalist in australia and somebody received documents and published i do not believe the u.s. supreme court will support that he is not a journalist and once you're a journalist you have a right to publish whatever you want now you know like a soldier or dislike a psalms that is what ultimately will probably happen ok but ron i'm not confident that they will be any kind of public trial whatsoever because it's see as mean and because the prosecution will say well we can't show you the evidence because it's sensitive it's national security i mean there are there is a scenario in which his own lawyer won't be able to see the evidence against him
and then he could be convicted by a judge because of national security here i don't have any confidence that. well that he would get a fair trial run in l.a. i don't either because 1st of all you know as far as freedom of the press is concerned in the united states and i don't know what it's like in every other country in the world but freedom of the press applies to everyone there is no institution i mean i mean we have degrees and stuff like that but it's not like you get a journalism card that says you're a journalist now and you can publish stuff right you know freedom of the press applies to everyone julian assange on not actually united states citizen so you know as far as oh he'll go on trial and the like what exactly is he on trial for and that's the question that when you look into it it's like oh this is just doing journalism this is sending a message and i also don't place just sending us messages other whistleblowers that
are saying if you're thinking of exposing corruption don't do it that's what they're doing with julia sanchez what they're doing when you manning they're trying to set an example a lot of them and they're trying to say if you want to blow the whistle don't do it and this is why the united states continues to decline in the rating of press freedom in a round. and we're going to. go on we're going to go to a short break here but i think it's very important to point out what ron just said is that journalism is something they said so things that you do not necessarily profession in the age of the internet and social media we're going to go to a short break here after a short break we'll continue our discussion of julian assange stay with us. this footage is unique because there's a tribal lens on normally off limits to the public erik's allowed in because he's
been so his personal doctor. people here know. simply as dr eric he's rich famous some always on the move saving yachts and flying aircraft that. was on. his own. he's considered one of the best neurosurgeons in brazil. that's happening amazon. how are you so sis going to busy doing that nothing's going to do the population because it's going to people mamas on.
this and petersburg international economic forum is a unique event in today's business world. over the last 21 years the forum has become a leading global platform for discussing the key economic issues facing russia emerging markets and the world thousands of business community members attend a forum to address today's vital issues. watch our special forum coverage on r.t. . nobody could see coming that false confessions would be that profile in this population of wrongful conviction. and any interrogations out there what we'll see is promise threat promise threat lie a lie a lie the process of interrogation is designed to put people in just that frame of mind make the most comfortable make them want to get out and don't take no for an
answer don't accept their denials she said therefore would. say i stayed there i would be home by that time the next day there's a culture on accountability that police officers know that they can engage in misconduct that has nothing to do with all the crime. welcome back across not where all things are considered we're having a very spirited conversation about. ok let's go back to the day in london i would my supposition is the following he's being persecuted because he exposed the crimes of the u.s. military abroad war crimes and i think ron is absolutely right they want to send
out a very cold message that whistleblowers don't ever do this again i can remember when edward snowden left the united states and sought asylum eventual here and dianne feinstein senator from the state i'm from said why didn't you just come to me i would have given you protection nobody believes that anymore no one does because these people are reporting serious crimes and malfeasance by people in power that about always had. had a shroud of protection of secrecy around them and these 2 whistleblowers well they showed it. power does ok that's his crime joined us on told us what was really happening why should he go to prison for that go ahead in london but you've put the 2 of you have highlighted the very problem and effectively destroyed your own case by describe i say edward snowden chelsea manning and julian the psalms a whistle blower's julian the song is not so whistle as
a journalist her and she shared her list sure right when i went to nobody here is he was a generally. do you not simply sad little results of care allow councils of lawyers you know how it's a dollars to be a lot of it they said listen you can also pay our on the t.v. show in which you deny that julie in the songs is a whistleblower and then says he's a whistleblower we need to it's important for the viewers that we get the terminology green honestly i don't know where is and out of the show the viewers at all said they did not know you don't draw function has it also already for i want to i mean i didn't lowers lot i'm going to tell you the point the important point the point was this the definition of a whistleblower is somebody within the organization who leaks documents for the good of the public that is a whistle blower that in snow zone i don't know that they know i know you don't want to hear that it's no no no they don't tell your parents don't filibuster on my program ok i'm not filibustering i don't know if you have see i've said i'm asking
more questions on that come on calm down i'm not trying to are kind of take a breath ok i'm trying to think do you think did you do you defense or do you think that julian assigned when he did what he did it we can leaks was in the public service. well but that doesn't matter what matters it doesn't matter why it's him and you know his life depends i hope it does i'm going to want. you cannot see your own questions if you want or you can ask me to answer them in terms of us constitutional law doesn't matter whether it's in the public interest at all if he's not planning. on doing what it is that he's not doing so any one pentagon papers read it read the exactly the word guy who hangs on good well i got another guest on the program and he's been very patient go ahead ron in los angeles actually it does matter because if something is deemed to be in the public interest it could be viewed as a political offense or something like that that's not something they're pursuing here but yes in fact it does matter ok all right good point of order taken there.
but you really haven't answered my question joined us on the leaks expose malfeasance of governments ok and and and crimes of crime war crime so ok and he brought that to light that's what that's why he's being persecuted would you agree with that or not. i mean i don't think i don't think it makes any difference the question here is does the acid doesn't get on different applied to journalists and the on the answer is i believe no it doesn't i believe that the trial of julian a solved is effectively in cold situational but also look most people live in a world where you are guilty until proven innocent as i say i live in a different world i think actually it's fine for him to face the charges i think it's 5 for him to be the charges and then we all move on hiding like an angry bob in the ecuadorian embassy you just described yourself doing that and they say oh i'm too well to stand trial julian just get on with it you can go way there anyway
i wish you were the only person i've ever come across that has that confidence i think most people and that's why people are changing their position because they see the entire moment the machinery of the state of the deep state in the united states and britain coming down on him like a ton of bricks after all after the the a decade or so of releasing documents that were authentic and it showed abuses of power i think that's more of a common sense an understanding of what's going on here go ahead ron and in l.a. . yeah i mean that's exactly what's going on here this is a total assault on press freedom so what are we implying then andre like i guess every journalist might just have to go to trial whenever they publish something that someone doesn't like and what we were saying earlier was that this is a message to whistleblowers which is what it is jealousy manning edward snowden and julian assange how they're being treated that is a message to future potential whistleblowers that's what this is overall well i
don't know i don't understand why you find it humorous a man's life is in the balance and you father the father who says you do it's a will of god say why 5 humors the fact that you still don't understand the difference you the journalist the whistleblower but let's not go there ok let's say that i mean if you don't can you except if that's not the point that's not the point can you just accept the fact that julian assange and wiki leaks was a conduit for whistleblowers in that that's not a real stretch there is that difficult to understand is it still that i mean we just don't i'm saying we don't have the journalism current system united states on just so you know that will you know there's a lot of hard to get them but remember you're a journalist now remember something remember something remember something this case is going to boil down to whether he's a whistleblower journalist that's why it's important to understand the difference in terms of in terms of what just said look here's a very simple answer clearly a precedent is going to be set one way or the of i've come for the rest it will be sad it's the everybody julian saw his position in future he's acting legitimately
and legally as you said on the program you're absolutely right they are attempting to prove that he's aka and probably columns but ultimately that these why the judge in this will not beholden to cole's julian assault because the president will be sat on that press that will be so when shrine journalistic rights that exist that have existed america 30 surely have a since its inception ok but ron you know when we had the grand jury session and in the sealed indictments in. there's i mean the u.s. government has been targeting julian assange for quite a while right now here and then when after being dragged out of the embassy we have a whole new cascade of accusations and charges here and again i want to impress upon our viewers is that we may if he makes it to the united states it is only a matter of time considering his health i suppose but we may not know much about the proceedings at all because the national security will be invoked it will be cloaked this will be something that we may not know many details about we may not
even know the fate of the man in some cases go ahead ron. yeah i think that's very possible and yeah this has been something that has has spanned it ministrations a lot of this stuff that they're charging them on me again can be traced back to 2010 doesn't even have anything to do with what happened in regards to the 2016 election so this is been something that they've been targeting a long time as you said peter and this is one of those things you know andrea i find it fascinating this confidence you have in the us court system in this regard i certainly do not share it ok and that id does their role for people like julian a solution weiqi leaks because one can make a very good and strong argument that we can leaks was successful is successful even considering the circumstances because they did with journalists don't do anymore they don't do investigative journalism they don't question power anymore actually
they're in bed with power right now they're still not good for is for power and again that's why they're targeting and weiqi leaks because they want to keep that nice comfortable arrangement ok i think leaks and julian assange which i have here is not a very nice person but i think that that both have done him a thing things actually for journalism what do you think on the day of a yeah so i think you'll characterize ation actually as a little bit pessimistic can i say i think we are in the process of moving from professional journalism to citizen journalism i think what is most interesting not in the media about on the hate to say this all the t.v. station is much more you know ordinary kids and people in their own homes right say one tweet say no bloating videos i think that is a much more interesting element to it julie in the psalms i think it will respect was deeply irresponsible to a publish things that said all the all the how and you're absolutely right you know the established media companies probably could not and maybe would not have
published all of the things they publish but what she. changing period with visa free journalism i think that you know what i do is changing what you guys do it's changing as well and so we're just going to see how that pans out but but i think in the information age actually people get more journalism now they have a day before and i think the ability. to control office and say it's just the opposite that is why alternative media is growing every single day that's why you tube is suppressing it. absolutely because the legacy media is a disgrace it's a disgrace that went along with the the war in iraq ok we would never let that happen again it will never happen and we are apology that is there and we get all those who are making all over again as we. go back to always say you know what you know you can all you do this is a. sham just because it's the war in iraq what are you going to say that you know
what i'm going to let well what i'm saying is his legacy i mean yes i guess not. but a lot of people who go to other places ron who are your employer going to places just like i was going to go to jail don't filibuster don't filibuster on my program go ahead run your filibustering me. old crosstalk. it's called cross talk but not talk over well that's what you'll do. no no he just went to me i don't know if you notice he said ron go ahead i'm ron you're andre he's peter. wiki leaks has had to retract 0 documents they've had to make 0 or attractions everything that they have published has stood up so yeah what they're doing for the press is important what they're doing for journalism is incredibly important the corporate media in the united states and you know i'll just stick on the united states because i live here i am exposed to united states
media the most is. is absolutely horrid they make more retractions in a day and that's fine i mean mistakes are going to happen like i understand that but it's because of the way they're structured it's because of a compromise of interest that happens on a daily basis and as a result of that we need access to 1st hand documents we need that type of stuff i mean that that type of stuff is important the information that we can leaks expose is infinitely important so much so that other outlets duplicated it and that's why people are finally waking up and changing their tune on this they're thinking gee they're coming after this guy for that they could come after any of us ok gentlemen very and i can freedom of the prize freedom of the press i would like to everyone ok we've run out of time very spirited and i'm very happy we're both on here many thanks and i guess in london and in los angeles and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. you next time and remember stockwell's.
most people think just stand out in this business you need to be the 1st one on top of the story or the person with the loudest voice of the biggest raid improves to stand out of the news business you just need as the right questions to ban the right answer. question. facebook and google started with a great idea and great ideals unfortunately it was also a very dark so. they are constructing a profile of you and that profile is real it's detailed and it never goes away
turns out that google is manipulating your opinions from the very 1st character that you type into the search bar it will always favor one dog food over another one comparative shopping service over another and one candidate over another they can suppress certain types of results diced on what they think you should be see if they have this kind of power then democracy is an illusion the free and fair election vesa exist the more rope we give them the sooner we're all. european governments especially the germans and the french and the brits they really want to help iran economically they have no control over their private sectors and their private sectors if they have to choose between de vaughn and market forces the us market again you don't have to be an economic genius to figure
out that they would go with the us markets. midday from moscow the un's top official i'm told this song has been subjected to a humane and degrading treatment over the past few years and it has taken a toll on the whistleblowers mental health. the reshoot all the sins of those close to the culture of person that has been exposed to. go on up to this lunchtime calls for donald trump to be in page 5 is that more democrats as the president himself why. support the very same issue to. a leaked british army document people who describe themselves as. extremists.